tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post6773781996473075542..comments2023-12-06T00:23:28.790+11:00Comments on Press gallery reform: On drugsAndrew Elderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-50064909857690035962012-06-15T14:52:48.259+10:002012-06-15T14:52:48.259+10:00I'm uncomfortable with any move to legitimise ...I'm uncomfortable with any move to legitimise drug use - even marijuana. <br /><br />I know that there are plenty of people who who it responsibly and that it's relatively harmless to many people. However, it also has the power to activate latent schizophrenia in other people. The only way to find out which kind of person you are, is the hard way. <br /><br />I'm not for zero tolerance. I'm happy for a blind-eye to be turned to harmless users, although as someone mentioned earlier, they're all fairly boring people. But I don't think it's government's place to be seen to approve of something that really isn't good for you.<br /><br />I also think it's pretty lame that we have banned everything to do with tobacco except tobacco. A legal product ought to be able to identify itself. If we are serious about stamping out smoking, we should go the final step and ban it completely. I wrote about how that might be done here: <br />http://the-billablog.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/time-to-call-quit-line-for-good.htmlBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03412983524190021368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-3706067827878784702012-06-14T07:10:42.545+10:002012-06-14T07:10:42.545+10:00The republican debate is a fairer comparison and i...The republican debate is a fairer comparison and i'd agree that they shot themselves in the foot by adopting some sort of 'small target approach' to significant constitutional reform. <br /><br />I think the long-term development of the NDIS has been a pretty good model for sensible policy development but it never had to contemplate the sort of hysterical tabloid misinformation campaign that any mooted reform of drug laws has to deal with. <br /><br />Hopefully a labor victory at the next election will restore some belief in the virtues of implementing sensible, long-term policy. Until then one can understand why drug reformers are hesitant to waste their time developing complex policy proposals that will never be adopted. (Barring the sort of labor leader you describe in your article and given their gutless retreat on pokie reforms there is no reason to think this particular mirage is likely to appear anytime soon)KnifeySpoonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03269119030919065233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-73696844159791249592012-06-11T15:58:55.357+10:002012-06-11T15:58:55.357+10:00Andrew,
Out of interest, have you heard of a book...Andrew,<br /><br />Out of interest, have you heard of a book called "Idiot America" by Charles P. Pierce?<br /><br />I think you'd enjoy it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-25621528732749863272012-06-10T20:37:03.195+10:002012-06-10T20:37:03.195+10:00In terms of broad-based reforms, compare the failu...In terms of broad-based reforms, compare the failure of the republicans of the late '90s to the relative success of the NDIS today. You can be not clever enough under the guise of being too clever.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-64097983176267858132012-06-10T20:33:54.191+10:002012-06-10T20:33:54.191+10:00When I was at school in the '80s there was a g...When I was at school in the '80s there was a guy in late '60s gear who would stumble down to our local pub with a thousand-yard stare, at the time of day when the school buses took us home. The kids called him Creeping Jesus, and legend had it that he was one of Australia's best guitarists until the wrong cocktail of alcohol and other drugs fried his synapses completely. He didn't scare everyone straight but everyone who witnessed him always pictured him at the back of mind when offered something.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-30081708740305550602012-06-10T20:27:35.393+10:002012-06-10T20:27:35.393+10:00Thanks for your thoughful contribution, Sancho.
1...Thanks for your thoughful contribution, Sancho.<br /><br />1. You're right, and I see no point in easing up on tobacco by opening multiple fronts.<br /><br />2. Perhaps so, but then there have been campaigns in the US to revive chewing tobacco - more information needed IMHO.<br /><br />3. I'm not sure abourt crippling addictions necessarily being the main concern, though any increase would represent a failure. I'm concerned about the prospect of a society where drugs are normalised. There should be more people getting into it than out of it, otherwise we are all easier to maniplulate.<br /><br />4. Perhaps, but there are still environmental issues - the small-scale opium poppy farms in Tasmania are very strict on containing runoff and the spread of pollen, but more widespread application could see side-effects that aren't clear at the moment.<br /><br />5. When I refer to 'authority' I not only mean politicians, law enforcement etc., I refer also to the authoriy of science - witness the climate debate - basically, if we as a society had a clear warning that substance X did more harm than good, how would we put that genie back in the bottle? Goes to the point in your final sentence.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-70169301732134255622012-06-10T17:49:48.886+10:002012-06-10T17:49:48.886+10:00Trends can reverse, particularly if you take your ...Trends can reverse, particularly if you take your eye off the ball: no reason to do so now.<br /><br />Don't care when they were created, they still dominate the market and will use that market power against well-informed debate and the interests of public health generally.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-21212525702989700452012-06-09T20:02:49.313+10:002012-06-09T20:02:49.313+10:00Point 1: Yes but overall trend has been downwards,...Point 1: Yes but overall trend has been downwards, like religion. Not sure about your 3rd rebuttal as it misses my point. Large scale alcohol and tobacco production are 18th century creations. I don't think it's safe to assume that the same would happen with cannabis.Patrickbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965709616278735547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-28490846925744215812012-06-08T14:54:21.132+10:002012-06-08T14:54:21.132+10:00Interesting article, not something you often see s...Interesting article, not something you often see since most of the public 'argument' revolves around the pro/anti prohibition discussion. Personally I'd tend to favour a model of legalisation along the lines of our current treatment of legal/prescription drugs however it's easy to see how legalisation could morph into pressure for further liberalisation to maximise the potential 'economic' benefits/tax revenue from this new market. <br /><br />Still given the limitations of our wretched political/media dynamic it's surely understandable that drug reformers adopt a 'small target' approach and try to overcome the initial hump of building broader public/political support for liberalisation. Wouldn't a broader range of proposals risk the sort of wilful misinformation/white anting campaign you see on issues like IR deregulation/carbox tax etc?KnifeySpoonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03269119030919065233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-60232689150337259232012-06-08T14:45:45.382+10:002012-06-08T14:45:45.382+10:00I reckon every 15 year old should be made to spend...I reckon every 15 year old should be made to spend two minutes stuck listening to some coked-up bore in a pub. That should be enough to put anyone off drugs.<br /><br />By the way, I think I need to be on drugs to get past your increasingly bizarre anti-robot test!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-33244337969202464612012-06-08T12:35:56.906+10:002012-06-08T12:35:56.906+10:00I'm not sure I completely agree with you, Andr...I'm not sure I completely agree with you, Andrew - I think I need to re-read and digest before I decide. However, I take your point that treating drug addiction as a medical problem in isolation is a mistake. Let me say, as a boomer entering his twilight years, I would have no problem with health resources being diverted from prolonging my life to dealing with addicted younger people. I may be unusual.<br /><br />One small point, though, on heroin addiction amongst Australian Vietnam veterans: I soldiered with quite a few of them, and none of them ever mentioned it. A few of them smoked weed, and a larger number had problems with alcohol, but I think herion addiction was much more an American problem.David Irving (no relation)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05728918405973140125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-46404281392138901212012-06-08T11:54:06.380+10:002012-06-08T11:54:06.380+10:00The big three cancer causes are alcohol,Cigarettes...The big three cancer causes are alcohol,Cigarettes and combined with diet (obesity) are the main factors which cause so many lifestlye related diseases and lengthy hospital stays/operations etc.<br />I think we have a real problem in Australia with the yobbo drinking culture, I think this coupled with every other car ad showing a solo car taking corners like a V8 driver (allways alone and in control, never stuck behind a caravan or at the lights) contribute to the road toll.<br />Heroin and Canabis cause problems too, and are a burden on the health system and society at large and I don't think there is an easy answer. The flicking of the switch to "legally accessable" mode doesn't seem like the solution.<br />I think it's pathetic that Hemp isn't being used (nation wide)commercially for the wonder crop that it is. The fibres are far superior to those used in paper, the clothes are warmer than cotton and still breathe.<br />I guess my point is that, ultimately each individual is responsible for their lifestlye choices, it should be evident by now, that people are going to stick whatever they want and whenever into themselves regardless of laws, hopefully the commonsense that we need to be shown also by the government as well on the treatment and management of drugs happens in our lifetimes.Funksoul123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14512374627441568219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-640999368687398892012-06-08T11:17:16.994+10:002012-06-08T11:17:16.994+10:00Some thoughts:
1. Tobacco is not only a harmful d...Some thoughts:<br /><br />1. Tobacco is not only a harmful drug in itself, but encourages cannabis abuse. Cannabis users who mix their pot with tobacco smoke far more pot than those who don't, because, unlike many drugs, once you're stoned off your gourd you don't get any higher by consuming more.<br /><br />Mixed with tobacco, however, the smoker keeps coming back for the nicotine hit and consuming more cannabis in the process.<br /><br />So, from that point of view, tobacco is still as harmful as ever, and cannabis use is actually preferable.<br /><br />2. Apart from being convenient, cannabis is smoked because it's the most cost-effective way of consuming something that grows on trees but is very expensive. If prices became more reasonable, many users would eat it instead, which may offset the respiratory disease burden.<br /><br />3. A recurring theme of these discussions is an assumption that legal access to drugs will result in an outbreak of crippling addictions.<br /><br />Legalisation would certainly increase the number of addicts, but from the population of people who are prone to addiction, who are already using the legal alternatives.<br /><br />It's well established that the most severe drug addicts are opportunistic: heroin might be their drug of choice, but if they can't get that, they'll take speed, or alcohol if that's what's left.<br /><br />That's why there's been such an outbreak of methamphetamine use. It's a horrible drug that no user would preference, but it's cheap and easy to make and therefore widely available.<br /><br />For those reasons, we don't know how many people would, for example, wean themselves off a ravaging alcohol dependence onto a much safer pattern of opioid or cannabis use.<br /><br />The other assumption in that vein is that it's necessarily crippling and degrading, as though everyone who likes a joint in front of the telly or an oxycodone with their strong black is headed inexorably toward rehab, but there's no evidence to support those assumptions.<br /><br />4. Regarding the farming and environmental effects of cannabis, commercial crops are far more likely to be indoor hydroponic affairs than outdoor plantations, which comes with hazards, but not strictly those of outdoor farming.<br /><br />5. I don't care much for the argument that modern societies aren't obedient enough to authority to be allowed access to mood-altering drugs, but that doesn't mean it's not relevant.<br /><br />I would say, though, that the human weakness for drug addiction is greatly overstated, and that access to cannabis and opioids won't lead to otherwise happy, productive people turning their lives over to drugs.<br /><br />Research into pain management addressed the concerns of hospital patients that using morphine for pain during treatment would turn into opioid dependence, and found it to be completely false.<br /><br />Neurologically, emotional pain is the same as physical pain, and heroin addicts are simply doing for their brains what a doctor does for a patient in agony. There's no inherently addictive quality to drugs, and I say that as someone who TRIED to become a cigarette smoker as an adolescent, but couldn't get into it.<br /><br />So, it's great that there's some discussion happening about the legality of drugs, but it still rests greatly on uninformed assumptions people make about drugs and drug users.Sanchonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-22627466556990981822012-06-08T07:31:13.724+10:002012-06-08T07:31:13.724+10:00Thanks Patrick.
1. Disagree about tobacco, the fa...Thanks Patrick.<br /><br />1. Disagree about tobacco, the fact that consumption is rising among young women belies your point.<br /><br />2. Agree with the light touch on alcohol, but again consumption is going up and alcohol-related harm is a real if often hidden issue.<br /><br />3. "We" might be, but government isn't. Look at alcohol; small-scale niche operators have a role but multinationals dominate the market.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-6152154853508121792012-06-07T23:28:16.862+10:002012-06-07T23:28:16.862+10:00Sorry Andrew, you've lost me on this one. Firs...Sorry Andrew, you've lost me on this one. Firstly, the campaign against tobacco needs to stop. I think we've reached reasonable levels of understanding of the harm. It's up to people how they deal with it and most people seem to have got the message.<br />Secondly I believe that alcohol harm prevention is done with an extremely light touch given the much wider circle of harm it spreads compared to tobacco. Why is this so? I suspect there are deeper cultural and economic forces at work.<br />Thirdly, history doesn't repeat. Modern alcohol and tobacco companies are the product of the industrial revolution. We're past that. In the case of cannabis I foresee the Amsterdam/San Francisco model as being the more likely scenario rather than vast fields of dope harvested by massive pot combines.Patrickbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09965709616278735547noreply@blogger.com