tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post7964545971536833835..comments2023-12-06T00:23:28.790+11:00Comments on Press gallery reform: The trick for journalism coursesAndrew Elderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-7755356002056211092013-06-07T20:56:11.518+10:002013-06-07T20:56:11.518+10:00It's really very complex in this active life t...It's really very complex in this active life to listen news on Television, therefore I simply use the web for that reason, and obtain the newest news.<br /><br />Here is my web-site - <a href="http://www.ff119.co.kr/fl/index.php?document_srl=9670" rel="nofollow">helpful resources</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-86294892622922408582012-08-02T12:07:21.201+10:002012-08-02T12:07:21.201+10:00Dunno about his hands. I worked out he had only a ...Dunno about his hands. I worked out he had only a tenuous grasp of reality about 20 years ago, when he was writing for <em>The Oz</em>, and have ignored him since (except to point and laugh).David Irving (no relation)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05728918405973140125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-28306115953769096562012-07-30T09:17:35.181+10:002012-07-30T09:17:35.181+10:00Over the weekend Tony Abbott told a group of journ...Over the weekend Tony Abbott told a group of journalists that Mal Brough had been 'totally upfront' about his involvement with James Ashby.<br /><br />This was reported without one single journalist pointing out that Abbott was lying and that Brough had changed his story twice.<br /><br />What other conclusion can you reach from this except to say that journalism in this country is dead?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-1875784919038272902012-07-25T09:43:14.299+10:002012-07-25T09:43:14.299+10:00That's him. What's up with his hands? Seri...That's him. What's up with his hands? Seriously weird. Bit of a chip on his shoulder, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-75684202917453924752012-07-23T13:52:00.254+10:002012-07-23T13:52:00.254+10:00Is it Terry McCrann you're thinking of? If so,...Is it Terry McCrann you're thinking of? If so, yeah, he reads like a really bad acid trip.David Irving (no relation)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05728918405973140125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-86541241101014283462012-07-23T09:27:08.218+10:002012-07-23T09:27:08.218+10:00Good friend of mine, a working journo, does a bit ...Good friend of mine, a working journo, does a bit a mentoring with students. He says when he asks them why they're studying journalism about 90% say something like 'to be on tele'. None talk about a love of writing or telling stories (in the good way, I mean), none have an interest in how society functions.<br /><br />It's disturbing. The only conclusion he can reach is the lack of role models. We have a whole generation now who have grown up without reading or listening to any inspiring journalists. The one dimensional tabloid culture and reliance on gossip instead of hard work has infiltrated our whole media landscape (see Grattan et al) and screwed up the future of journalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-60992061566174368402012-07-23T08:23:11.006+10:002012-07-23T08:23:11.006+10:00As I said initially, it is a mistake to view the o...As I said initially, it is a mistake to view the output of the Canberra press gallery as representative of the media at large. It is not "the apogee of the profession", no matter what its members say.<br /><br />As to going "way back" - these are examples that took me about five minutes to come up with. There are plenty more.<br /><br />You don't care about Mick Gatto? Fine, then that story's not for you. Still not based on a press release, though.<br /><br />Your point re 3 goes to demonstrate my point. DJs was compelled to publish the name of the non-existent public equity outfit because that "UK blog site" report was picked up by Fairfax and published on its websites.<br /><br />I don't see anything in the announcement about EBPE being a joke, which is the point of the story above.<br /><br />The story was published on the Monday following that ASX announcement and consists mostly of original work debunking the bid. In other words, no, not based on a press release.<br /><br />Again, I think the problem is that you don't understand the industrial model of journalism production. <br /><br />The way it works is that yes, the vast bulk of news stories are routine. Too many of them are based on press releases (anywhere between 55 per cent and 80 per cent, depending on which study you look at). This is, if you like, the bathwater of commodity journalism.<br /><br />The investigative work, the baby, is produced in the same newsrooms. Often by the same journalists, at the same time as they are churning out commodity work.<br /><br />Newspapers do the vast bulk of this heavy lifting because, despite cuts over the years, they still have the biggest newsrooms in the industry.<br /><br />To say cuts will "neither make the examples you cite more or less common" once again illustrates you don't know what you're talking about.<br /><br />Of course it will make such examples less common, as the remaining journalists pedal harder to keep up with the day-to-day donkey work.<br /><br />You want to do down industrial journalism? God knows why, the commercial model is broken anyway because media companies have failed to adapt to technological change - you're basically wasting your time.<br /><br />But you should recognise that when tipping out the bathwater there is a baby in there somewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-31976303275030465072012-07-23T08:11:29.165+10:002012-07-23T08:11:29.165+10:00None of those stories introduced by Anon have any ...None of those stories introduced by Anon have any significance outside of a narrow coterie of numb-nuts that think The Godfather was a documentary. I've dealt with my share of crims and most are dumb-arse boring as batshit and, when it comes down to it, pretty gutless. It's like the endles stream of 'footballer X got pissed and shat his pants' stories. Who. Fucking. Cares.<br /><br />The biggest "news" of the '50's according to Anon's rule was Mrs Petrov being dragged off a plane in Darwin, yet that turned out to be confected tosh while the real story was that indexed rises to the Metal Industry Award and the flow on was what paid for suburban Australia. But, gee, that wasn't too sexy a story now was it.<br /><br />Ask yourself this; which has had the greater impact on your day to day life - the death of Azaria Chamberlain or the shifting of cost-risk for public infrastructure from the state to the household sector?<br /><br />Go on, ask yourself which is more important, to <i>you</i>?<br /><br />Or does the price of a CTP slip and road tolls not worry you? If so, count yourself blessed that you are part of that 30 percent of Australia that earns more than AWE, for the rest of us we need better information on managing in this neo-liberal age, and media is not serving us, apart from offering up this infotainment that makes <i>Entertainment Tonight</i> look like a Ken Loach documentary.. <br /><br />In the meantime a bunch of wide boys dick-swinging down the markets is the least of my worries. And story four was probably a tip-off from the Police Association, which is as good as a press releasee anyway! And besides, how many of those stories could be written without phrases with wtte such as "it is believed that..." and "sources say...".<br /><br />Save your gossip for someone who cares, there's fewer of them every day.<br /><br />To put it bluntly, the MSM should grow up!Lachlan Ridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-26894294639284113902012-07-22T22:57:53.129+10:002012-07-22T22:57:53.129+10:00See, you think that journalism is all about the re...See, you think that journalism is all about the reader/listener/viewer. Your hardened old journos laugh at that - until they get sacked.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-32359639609386899352012-07-22T22:18:57.381+10:002012-07-22T22:18:57.381+10:00Sure, but that's where Scanlon's article u...Sure, but that's where Scanlon's article unravels: he's training journalists, but they're doing things other than what we might recognise as journalism because a) technology and b) there aren't the jobs available; even so, he insists that what those grads do is journalism and that PR=journalism. <br /><br />Your second par is telling. Thank you.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-77307144345989616972012-07-22T22:15:01.511+10:002012-07-22T22:15:01.511+10:00Press-release driven journalism is >90% of jour...Press-release driven journalism is >90% of journalism, and in the case of the Canberra Press Gallery (the apogee of that profession, just ask them) the rest is just bullshit. As to your examples:<br /><br />1) Point taken, but you had to go way back to get that one and you haven't really traced it to the vegie-buying public in any meaningful way; the celebrity is the hook, apparently, the human interest angle: see 2) below.<br /><br />2) Non-story, so what? I'm not chasing that fucking rabbit down its hole, even if it is carrying a fob watch and saying "I'm late, I'm late", and I won't pay anyone else to do so either. Wake me when Gatto dies and remind me why I should give a shit. The press release is the first Underbelly TV series. <br /><br />3) Here it is: http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do?display=pdf&idsId=01310018 (all MSM business stories come from ASX announcements, quibble away as to whether they constitute "press releases").<br /><br />4) See 1) above, and that part of 2) dealing with Underbelly.<br /><br />You haven't had to go back as far as Watergate, the standby of all lazy-arse journalists. You haven't made the case that good investigative journalism is the norm, nor even that it even happens often, nor that it focuses on big and telling issues, which is where you get into issues like Importance To Our Democracy. The fact that Fairfax and News are doing a bit of trimming is not nearly the tragedy you seem to think it is, and it will neither make the examples you cite more or less common.<br /><br />At best, you've established that they're not quite all completely and utterly useless all the time, and where does it leave you? On your little mound of yellowed old newspapers, thinking you're Ed Hillary. <br /><br />Lucky you haven't put your name to the above, as I have.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-82379478250100920652012-07-22T11:36:32.324+10:002012-07-22T11:36:32.324+10:00What's even taught in Journalism?
Research is...What's even taught in Journalism?<br /><br />Research is press releases and manufactured leaks; Insight is credulity rather than scepticism; Stories are written from the above and moulded to fit the "Narrative" (currently: "Julia is Crap").<br /><br />Don't get me started on spelling, grammar and punctuation either. How many times do we have to suffer the misuse of "and", "but", "so", "although", etc., which can completely change the sense of a sentence - seems like the current view is you just throw the words together and hope for the best.angrydadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05510213647827312838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-47784863105022630802012-07-22T09:14:14.001+10:002012-07-22T09:14:14.001+10:00Here are four news stories, big and small, good an...Here are four news stories, big and small, good and bad.<br /><br />Can you identify the press release behind each one?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/underbelly-inc-gangs-muscle-in/story-e6frg6of-1111117471374" rel="nofollow">Underbelly Inc: gangs muscle in on markets</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.watoday.com.au/national/gatto-denies-bashing-rivals-20100110-m0d5.html" rel="nofollow">Gatto denies bashing rivals</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.smh.com.au/business/mystery-bidder-for-djs-revealed-20120701-21b3u.html" rel="nofollow">Mystery bidder for DJs revealed</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/you-pay-for-carl-williams-daughter-to-attend-top-private-college/story-e6freuy9-1225855292627" rel="nofollow">Taxpayers fork out for Carl William's daughter to attend top private college</a><br /><br />No, you can't, because in each case there was no press release.<br /><br />I'm not going to argue that there isn't too much press release-driven work going on; but in each case above the claim that you can get the facts from a press release is simply factually wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-49590751979886649792012-07-22T00:18:50.046+10:002012-07-22T00:18:50.046+10:00Anon, until October 2010 I worked in the media. I ...Anon, until October 2010 I worked in the media. I now sort parcels at night for Australia Post. I quit because the workload was exactly as KnifeySpoony and Andrew Elder describe above. <br /><br />Anyone who has any interest in any area would do well to subscribe to the media RSS feed for the relevant departments, corporations and NGOs involved in the sector, or simply set up a Google Alert. This allows you to glean more information than if you relied solely on the mainstream media because the latter <i>is not doing its job</i>.<br /><br />And the "training" of journalists is a big part of the problem. <i>Frontline</i> is not a satire, it's a documentary.Lachlan Ridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-27879922675964682252012-07-21T21:10:35.759+10:002012-07-21T21:10:35.759+10:00You don't have any credulity, nor any credibil...You don't have any credulity, nor any credibility. Perhaps you thought they were the same thing. KnifeySpoony above has shown you up in terms of journalistic knowledge, which doesn't leave you with much given your failure to assess who (and what) you're dealing with her.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-18857271426214802112012-07-20T22:29:30.128+10:002012-07-20T22:29:30.128+10:00No, I don't. I'm actually incredulous. Whi...No, I don't. I'm actually incredulous. Which is one up on being credulous, I guess. <br /><br />I don't think we have enough of a framework in common here for me to mount an argument you would listen to.<br /><br />You and Jericho both seem to be labouring under a misapprehension about how the mechanics of industrial journalism work, possibly because you're looking at the output of the Canberra press gallery as typical when in fact it is not.<br /><br />I don't think there's anything I could say that would convince you you're wrong about how journalism is actually done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-23730180013980009252012-07-20T22:24:43.845+10:002012-07-20T22:24:43.845+10:00I think the point is that all the MSM really does ...I think the point is that all the MSM really does is transcribe press releases and translate them to fit into whatever the particular narrative of the day happens to be. They don't subject them to any sort of serious scrutiny or analysis, so you may as well just read the press release and see what a blogger with some expertise or knowledge of the subject makes of it.KnifeySpoonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03269119030919065233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-10082143603885554392012-07-20T22:21:43.972+10:002012-07-20T22:21:43.972+10:00If I was the average Australian journalist my job ...If I was the average Australian journalist my job would depend on it. Their idea of investigative journalism involves hitting Send/Receive on to see if they've been emailed any press releases. <br /><br />Rather than acting all incredulous: do you have an argument, or just a pose?Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-38483768041566732012-07-20T22:19:19.332+10:002012-07-20T22:19:19.332+10:00Thank you.Thank you.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-71904929407968060862012-07-20T22:07:41.672+10:002012-07-20T22:07:41.672+10:00No, you're both obviously smart people.
But t...No, you're both obviously smart people.<br /><br />But this idea that you both hold that fact-gathering journalism can be replaced with press releases is astonishing.<br /><br />Do you really trust organisations to put out "just the facts"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-10733649718894989922012-07-20T21:54:39.170+10:002012-07-20T21:54:39.170+10:00You'd like to disagree with me, wouldn't y...You'd like to disagree with me, wouldn't you, if only you had some facts and a bit of logic. I know I wasn't meant to be flattered by the Jericho comparison but I am.Andrew Elderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04705844456819481896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-58251121455088981622012-07-20T18:03:36.167+10:002012-07-20T18:03:36.167+10:00The MSM only employs a third of j grads, so I'...The MSM only employs a third of j grads, so I'm not convinced that j courses should be tailored towards what the MSM wants. Particularly when the MSM benefits enormously from unis doing their training for them - the cost of entry to the industry has been pushed from the media organisations onto the students, who start with a three-year HECS debt, accumulated mostly in training in programs that they won't use because the MSM is too far behind. Hell, if you can't teach someone to be a journalist in six months, then you're doin' it wrong.<br /><br />Besides, most of the stuff you read on MSM sites - and in the paper the following day - wouldn't pass a reporting assignment: one voice stories, no fact checking, publishing before getting comment from the other side. There's some research out of the UK (haven't seen any local research on this topic yet) indicating that journalism graduates quickly abandon their ideals and discredit their uni education once they're in a newsroom, in order to fit in. I don't think it's the universities that are the problem.newswithnippleshttp://www.newswithnipples.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-80498947646880537062012-07-20T17:51:56.568+10:002012-07-20T17:51:56.568+10:00"Surely there is some university by-law where..."Surely there is some university by-law where a student who writes as badly as Michelle Grattan should have to show cause why they should not be expelled."<br /><br />True dat. (I'm excused for making a Wire reference here, considering where the final series was set, but apologies anyway.)<br /><br />Who's that freak with the weird hands in the Hun, keeps getting his interest rates predictiongs wrong? His writing is seriously bananas, I can't get enough of it, weirdest stuff I've ever read. It's like an abstract art project from the sixties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-32162429730217495702012-07-20T17:03:46.484+10:002012-07-20T17:03:46.484+10:00"Besides, you can get just-the-facts reportin..."Besides, you can get just-the-facts reporting from plenty of other sources, including viewing the very press release that gave rise to a particular story."<br /><br />Do you really believe that? That seems excesively naive. And yet you're not the only intelligent person taking this line - Greg Jericho said something similar recently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22534369.post-80770040009168407772012-07-20T15:13:18.147+10:002012-07-20T15:13:18.147+10:00I have had occasion to listen to Colvin in the car...I have had occasion to listen to Colvin in the car in recent times and have not been impressed at all. He seems to have a Simon Sheikh moment each show where his noggin turns off and he has to start his sentence over. His interviews seem to be with the same talking heads over and over, like that bloke from the American research centre.<br /><br />A Colvin backlash would be a good thing, I think. The Australian MSM journo Twitterati are an incestuous lot, and the emperor isn't wearing much.m0ntyhttp://tinfinger.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com